I think I mentioned before that I used to ask Disney's original animators about their opinion regarding animated films I was a part of. After you ask the question you kind of want to run for cover, in fear that harsh criticism would come your way. Still, I was curious.
Here are a few recollections about what the "Old Guys" thought after having watched films from Disney's revival period. Milt Kahl enjoyed The Great Mouse Detective, he thought the film had a fresh approach in terms of storytelling and character development.
The Little Mermaid was pretty much liked by the old guard. The studio invited Frank and Ollie for a screening when the film was about half animated. At one time Frank interrupted with an excited voice: "Who did that one?" He was referring to a little reaction shot of Ariel. Somebody informed him that David Pacheco had animated this scene. When this got back to David he was on cloud nine of course...and probably still is.
Ken Anderson liked Beauty and the Beast very much. He said he couldn't think of a way to improve it. Chuck Jones also raved about the film, particularly Glen's animation of the Beast.
I don't remember specific reactions to Aladdin. I think Frank and Ollie had a few quibbles with the story, but nothing major. Marc Davis objected to the fact that Robin Williams was allowed to improvise his dialogue for the Genie. "We never had our voice actors ad-lib anything!" He thought that this type of dialogue would date the film in years to come. As for myself, I got two thumbs up for Jafar from Frank and Ollie.
The Lion King got a few "not so nice" reactions. Frank and Ollie disliked watching Mufasa's dead body after the stampede. "I think we handled the death of Bambi's mother better by not having her on screen after the gun shot." Frank commented. Marc Davis was displeased with the animation of the lions. "When we drew Bambi, you felt every bone in the deer's body, it was believable!" Our lions reminded him of the appearance of plush toys.
I forgot one title, Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Frank and Ollie despised the concept of animated characters (Toons) being looked at as annoying, and being banned to a ghetto like Toontown. That concept went against their personal philosophy about animation. Ward Kimball thought that everything just moved too fast :"The only one character who held still and I could read was Betty Boop". Who was animated beautifully by Roger Chiasson.
If only we got to hear what Kahl had to say about the Little Mermaid before he died. I have a feeling he would have loved it too!
ReplyDeleteMilt always valued the quality of storytelling. He thought that Disney films after Jungle Book weren't worth his talent.
DeleteQuite a few of their comments had more to do with the story, which I find interesting since the different approach to story-telling is one of the things that made the movies of your generation of animators stand out so well. For example, I don't think Lion King would have been the same, had it shied away from such a clear depiction of death. Oh well, opinions! I'm glad to know there were still a few aspects they enjoyed.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the point you make about Lion King. The film is about the circle of life, life and death.
Deleteif I remember right, there's a story in the Animator's Survival Kit about Frank Thomas' reaction to Roger Rabbit. Although I think it was right for you guys to go with what you thought was best, as opposed to making movies for the older guys.
ReplyDeleteI think with the Lion King especially, the style was a really nice balance of solid drawing with enough flexibility for expressive animation. Maybe they would have looked weird if you'd emphasized the anatomy more than you did. And the more restrained style of Bambi suits it's own movie too! It's all good!
I was kind of curious about making Bambi more squashy and closer to the Lion King's style for the sequel. Maybe kids like that style more, or maybe it was for practical reasons.
It's certainly interesting to hear what the old guard thinks of the newer movies, even if some of those thoughts might be considered a little "old-fashioned". I remember reading about Frank and Ollie's opinions regarding The Lion King and in particular Mufasa's death somewhere before, but I'm trying to remember where I read that from.
ReplyDeleteI seem to recall that Chuck Jones really liked Aladdin because it was so funny. Yes?
ReplyDeleteI feel a little disgusted about Marc Davis' reaction to Robin Williams' performance as the Genie. He must be rolling in the clouds of heaven when he realizes that the Genie's performance would be loved for so many years.
ReplyDeleteI can understand if you disagree (I do too), but I think disgust is a rather strong word.
DeleteI personally feel Davis was wrong here, but why would I feel disgusted at this opinion? I am sure he had his reasons, and his feelings are hardly controversial.
Thank you for this illuminating post, Andreas! I would love to know what Richard Williams thought of Frank and Ollie's reaction to the animation he directed. I am guessing he wasn't pleased!
ReplyDeleteI seem to recall reading the foreword to his book that he was absolutely not afraid to challenge their ideas. I believe he disagreed with their thoughts on the use of twos in select situations, amongst other things.
Hey I dug out the part of Richard Williams' book about Frank's reaction-
Deletehttps://imgur.com/a/efYz2F9
What a great read!! Thanks for sharing Marc!
DeleteFor somebody like me, who has only seen Thomas speaking nicely on DVD bonus features, these sort of exchanges seem so out of character for him, lol! I guess I can't picture a cynical Frank Thomas ... yet. :-P
Btw, I just realised I made a mistake up there. It was Kimball who criticised the animation, not Frank and Ollie. Based on that scan it seems like Richard wasn't too keen on the constant hyperactivity either!
Hey Andreas! I've heard a lot of comments from older animators about Aladdin's pop culture references being dated. (Its depiction of the Middle East is dated, but that's a whole 'nother bag of worms.)
ReplyDeleteI have to maintain that this is a stodgy and strictly adult point of view... I didn't care WHO the Genie was imitating as a kid, I still laughed my butt off. I still do, largely because Robin's and Eric's sincerity and exuberance transcends the references.
Kudos to the film, also, for keeping those gags quick and concise and moving back to the story. I've seen a lot of recent animated films that draw corny gags out to a level of discomfort.
Well put, Mike!
DeleteI love this post so much! So fun to hear their thoughts! Do you know what specific shot it was that Frank yelled "Who did that one" to?
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting the opinion of the "Old Disney Guards"! :)
ReplyDeleteI like to read what the "Old Guys" liked and why they did this! :)
...
I mean the opinions
DeleteHi Andreas,
ReplyDeleteI came across these old interviews(1996) from Frank and Ollie that are pretty insightful. The interviews are in Norwegian but putting them into Google Translate gave me a rough translation.
Frank's Part 2 gives some mention to the Disney Renaissance films. Also some mention of European animation. Really enjoyed the respect he paid towards other forms of animation.
Ollie Johnston Interview
https://www.norskanimasjon.no/pub/index.php/ffaf/artikler/ollie_johnston_et_intervju_del_1
Frank Thomas Interviews
Part 1
https://www.norskanimasjon.no/pub/index.php/ffaf/artikler/frank_thomas_et_intervju_del_1
Part 2
http://www.norskanimasjon.no/pub/index.php/ffaf/artikler/frank_thomas_et_intervju_del_2